BY: Ciaran Farrell, Myalgic Encephalomyelitis sufferer
Medical tests for a specific disease need to be an accurate and reproducible means of establishing the unique pathophysiology of the disease concernedI have a scientific background and I have studied the contents of the presentation made by Professor Kenny de Meirleir. His hypothesis is that high levels of hydrogen sulphate in the urine may possibly be diagnostic of the presence and or overgrowth of relatively certain common microbes living within the gut. This he then claims produces the symptoms of MyalgicEncephalomyelitis.
This is not a new idea; it is a new variant on the “leaky gut” hypothesis that has been around for some time and has been associated with the Candida overgrowth hypothesis of ME which produces the same kind of “leaky Gut” in which candida travels through the gut and invades the body through the gut walls. This hypothesis has been largely discredited although it still hasits supporters.
The current hypothesis follows much the same lines, that the micro organisms that ought to be contained within the gut are somehow able to penetrate the walls of the gut and end up just about everywhere in the body including the brain
There are a number of problems and issues here which can be summarised but are not limited to :-<p>
- How can such organisms penetrate the gut wall and invade the body in the manner claimed, as this was the Achilles Heel of the previous Candida hypothesis?
- Assuming that it is possible for these micro organisms to invade the body in the way Prof. Kenny de Meirleir hypothesises, then the person would be suffering from a very nasty case of infection by one of the micro organism concerned, and not ME, since all the micro organisms cited by Prof. Kenny de Meirleir are already known to medicine and medical science, and this would be picked up by a battery of microbiological tests which would confirm the presence of a bacterium as being the cause of the infection suffered by the patient. Not all the organisms concerned are not that easy to treat and some can be resistant to antibiotics, but diagnosisand treatment are relatively strait forward. This leads to the academic scientific question as to whether certain levels of some of these microbes live in the gut anyway, and speculation as to what would lead them to cause an infection.
- That in order for a given specific disease to be produced through the invasion of the body by a specific microbe, there must be an equation made between the microbe responsible and the disease. One cannot have the same disease produced by an unspecified number of certain specified and also by other un-named and or un-specified microbes because this wouldsimply be termed a general bacterial infection. It would not be ME.
- That in order for a diagnostic test to detect the presence of a given single microbe or family of microbes a given test must detect the microbes concerned in the presence of other microbes which may be harmless, or not the subject of the test, and therefore the test will not producefalse positives results when applied to samples taken from patients. There is no indication that the proposed test will do this
- That in order for a diagnostic test to detect the presence of a given microbe or family of microbes it is necessary for the test to have a given provable and reliable sensitivity to the organism it is intended to be a test for so that medics and researchers can have confidence that if the test says that there is nothing there, then that is indeed the case. This is to avoid the problem of false negatives. There is no information whatsoever from Prof. Kenny de Meirleir on this subject, so I can only assume that the proposed test does not meet the stringent standards of any national or international Health Board. This is presumably why the test is not beingmarketed to doctors or to governments or Health Boards, but only to individuals.
- That in order that for a diagnostic test to be accepted as the means of diagnosing a given disease it must be accurate, and it must be reliably accurate to a very high standard so that again medics and researchers can have confidence that the test really does do what it claimsit can. Again, there is no information whatsoever from Prof. Kenny de Meirleir on this subject, so I can only assume that the proposed test does not meet the stringent standards of any national or international Health Board. This is presumably also why the test is not being marketed to doctors or to governments or Health Boards, but only to individuals.
Lastly but by no means least, the theory behind the test must be based on a unique aspect of the pathophysiology of the disease because only then can the equation between a given specific microbe and a given specific disease be made. In order to be in a position to make this equation the theory which underpins the use and application of any diagnostic test must accountdirectly for the disease process itself and not be a consequence or artefact of that disease process that could be produced in other ways.
I consider that Prof. Kenny de Meirleir’'s hypothesis and Hydrogen Sulphide diagnostic test based upon it fails this test on the grounds listed above and for the simple reason that he has not accounted for the well known fact that patients with ME/CFS/CFIDS are known to have compromised immune systems.
This would mean that as with HIV/AIDS patients who also have compromised immune systems that there is very considerable likelihood that in ME/CFS/CFIDS patients the presence of the microbes that Prof. Kenny de Meirleir observes and the numbers in which he observes them are simply due to the secondary consequences of having ME/CFS/CFIDS as a result of opportunistic infections by microbes that would largely be kept at bay by the body’'s immune system in a healthy person.
I note that Prof. Kenny de Meirleir has been a controversial figure when he served as a Board Member of the American Association for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and editor of The Journal of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome put out by The Haworth Medical Press and that the Board of The National CFIDS Foundation, Inc. (NCF), in America, called for his resignation as the resultof his previous research activities.
I also note that Prof. Kenny de Meirleir’s recent work on this matter is not published in a Peer Reviewed Journal, and that he does not appear to have any plans to publish his work in such a journal, possibly because his work on this matter may not reach the standards required by such journals.
I further note that Prof. Kenny de Meirleir is one of the Editorial Panel of the proposed new Journal of Fatigue where presumably he would be able to publish this work as presumably this journal does not have the same status and standing as a regular Peer Reviewed journal, and he would be standing in favourable judgement over his own work.
In view of the entirety of the above, my advice would be to think long and hard before committing £13 or any other sum of money to buy the home testing kit proposed by Prof. Kenny de Meirleir or on whether to have the test performed in any other way, and I would be very wary indeed of any treatment options that may be advanced by Prof. Kenny de Meirleir on the basis of a positive test result, or the consequences of a negative test result.
Ciaran Farrell Myalgic Encephalomyelitis sufferer


16 comments:
Dette er skrevet av en person som ikke kan fysiologi og som ikke kjenner menneskekroppen, og som ikke har forstått hva det nye "gjennombruddet" handler om. Jeg kunne pekt ut alle feilene, men det føles litt meningsløst. Jeg sier ikke at teorien eller prøven er uten feil heller, men kritikken her er ihvertfall bak mål.
Så lenge denne gassen kan måle i urin, sier det seg selv at tarmen er gjennomtrengbar, og det er nok et problem som er vanlig ve ME. Men og si at om man ikke får utslag på denne prøven tilsier at man ikke har ME, er jeg tvilende til. Man skal være klar over at det er mer omfattende enn denne gassen, noe også De Meirlei sier.
Det er jo en spennende oppdagelse, men hva det betyr i ME sammenheng er selvsagt for tidlig og si. Jeg hadde jo helst sett at han ikke brukte ord som at gåten er løst, for det kan fort bli uheldig for han og ME saken!
H2S kan bevege seg gjennom alt i kroppen, det er fordi det er en fettløselig gass. Den kan derfor diffundere fritt og bevege seg rundt. Det er derfor den har anledning til å påvirke hjernen f.eks.
Isobel, jeg er så glad at du finnes her nå! :-) Jeg skjønner hvor utroooolig lite jeg kan om fysiologi og du oppklarer så mye!
Yepp, Isobel er super
Tihi :) Skulle bare ønske jeg hadde tid og ork til å sette meg skikkelig nøye inn i disse nye teoriene. De er spennende, men jeg vil at man skal teste og undersøke mye mer så vi kan se om det virkelig er hold i dem.
Jeg nevnte forresten dette for sjefen min (som forsker litt på H2S hos fisk), hans umiddelbare kommentar var: jasså, så promper alle ME-folk masse da? Det er jo et interessant spørsmål ;)
Så man trenger ikke ha lekk tarm altså, jeg tok det som en selvfølge siden De Meirleir snakker om dette hele tiden da det kommer til ME. Spørsmålet blir jo om dette finnes hos andre enn ME-Pasientene? Som da har tarmproblemer?
Er det noe nytt om den testen Hege? Vet du noe om det? Jeg har sendt mail men det kommer ikke noe svar.
Jeg har ikke hørt noe mer om testen, bortsett fra en mail jeg fikk i dag om at de hadde mottatt vanvittig mye med bestillinger, og at informasjon samt betalingsinfo vil bli sendt ut så snart som mulig
Ok. Takk. Kom det som en overraskelse på dem at de fikk så mye henvendelser tro? Sysselsette halve Belgia for å svare på mailer. Sånn går det da man ikke er forbrett med online betaling.:)
Jeg ville tro at H2S finnes i kroppen hos alle mennesker, ettersom det er et helt vanlig nedbrytningsprodukt når bakterier bryter ned proteiner. Det er bl.a. H2S som gir den gufne lukten når vi har dårlig ånde og når vi fiser. Og som sagt, dette produseres av bakterier som bor i kroppen. H2S i moderate mengder er ikke farlig, og man forsker faktisk på om det kan ha en slags hormonfunksjon også.
Uansett, sånn jeg forstod dette så er teorien at pga lekk tarm så fikk folk med ME ekstra store H2S-produserende bakteriekolonier i tarmen. Dette fører igjen til ekstra høye H2S-mengder i hele systemet (siden H2S kan hoppe rundt som den selv vil uten å bli stoppet av tarmvegger, cellevegger eller annet tull), og H2S er jo i bunn og grunn giftig (og har interessant nok sammenfallende symptomer med ME).
Sånn jeg forståd den testen så målte den mengde H2S-nedbrytningsprodukter i urin. Jeg antar at man bør ha høyere enn normale H2S-mengder i kroppen om man skal få utslag på testen.
Og ja, jeg vil regne med at det er flere, særlig de med tarmlidelser, som kan ha forhøyet H2S-produksjon i kroppen.
Disclaimer: jeg er ikke noen superekspert på feltet, dette er god blanding av kunnskap og kvalifisert gjetning på bakgrunn av et par håndfuller år med fysiologi...
Tusen takk Isobel. Det var veldig nyttig informasjon.
Foreløpig svar ved. best. av testen:
Dear Sir or Madam,
We have received your email and thank you for your interest in our test. Due to the large number of mails we have received we will need a couple of days to process your request. We apologize for this delay.
As soon as possible we will forward you an order form on which you will find more information about our test, as well as payment instructions.
We thank you for your patience,
Protea Biopharma
Z.1 Researchpark 100
B-1731 Zellik
Hejsan, är det någon som har varit och besökt Dr Meirleir? Jag har som Renate försökt att få kontakt med Protea och Dr Meirleir för att få reda på mer om behandlingarna han har nämnt, men jag har inte fått något svar där än. Det hade varit intressant om något av det han behandlar med faktiskt fungerar. Men då kommer frågan - varför har inte det här kommit ut isåfall? Tycker hans ageranden om att patentera sina upptäckter istället för att presentera dem för sina medforskare är något tvivelaktigt, om än att jag ändå är intresserad av vad för hjälp som kan finnas.
Hei Christoffer
Jeg har vært hos De Meirleir for utredning, og starter behandling i Juli. Du kan lese om dette
http://merutt.wordpress.com/2009/05/29/1-gangsbes%c3%b8k-hos-kenny-de-meirleir/
Ellers vil jeg anbefale
www.me-behandling.com
Dette er et ganske nytt forum, men mange som er under behandling hos De Meirleir.
http://drstockmann.wordpress.com/
På denne bloggen finner du også mye info fra erfarne De Meirleir pasienter.
Lykke til, mvh Rutt :-)
Hei Rutt...du kom meg i forkjøpet. Jeg hadde tenkt å anbefale forumet.
Tusen takk for at du svarte.
Thanks so much for this informative analysis. I haven't been able to shake the feeling De Meirleir is copping out with this theory. It seems simplistic and a step backwards, after doing such promising research on RNaseL. I just can't understand why he has gone in this direction and is stating this theory with such certainty. :S - Christine
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